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9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread

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Purella Lacelle


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PostSubject: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:02 pm#1


-9TH HORIZON NEIN NEWS & DISCUSSION THREAD-



Quote :
A story that begins in a certain antique shop...
If it had been just like this back then, I wonder if things would have changed...

Though I know most, if not all, of you have heard the new info by now, I thought it would be a good idea if we had a thread to keep track of all the news on the 9th horizon, as well as a place to speculate and give opinions on any new updates that come our way.


So just for recap on what we know so far, the new horizon will be released on April 22. Its original title was Bastet, but as of the update on March 6, the new title is Nein.


This is the third commemorative work on the tenth anniversary of the debut record of Sound Horizon!


There will be a total of 11 songs (excluding any bonuses Revo may have in mind, or bonus tracks that are customary in SH) in three separate versions: Regular, Limited and Deluxe. Moreover, the Limited and Deluxe both come with an undetermined PV.


But there is even more that can only be obtained with the deluxe edition (which costs 10,000 yen before shipping):

  • An Omake Maxi Single: Marvelous Shouuchuu (The Wonderful Microcosmos, [working title])
  • A limited selection of songs from the Sound Horizon 10th Year Anniversary Fanclub Event, in which Noël Vanishing Starlight took part as the opening act.
  • An exclusive product: replica terminal model information eyewear.





Last edited by Purella Lacelle on Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Thanako

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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:52 pm#2

I hope you don't mind that I've taken the liberty to reformat and add additional information to your post! I am willing to revert it back, should you want. My first impressions of this art are negative, but I'm trying to have an open mind about this in the end. Let's hope that it will be an unforgettable experience!
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Alchea


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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:18 pm#3

Sincerely, I'm mostly interested in why the cat symbol is so important for this horizon (as it is all over it and cats are... well, from all the animals humanity has shared a bond with, cats may be the ones that have the most myths and magic around).

And that quote, because it seems to talk about Butterfly Effect and the concept of an Antique Shop (more so one located in the future, in a place where what we know is already dated).

Also, as Ghostie pointed when he was talking with us (and these are his conclusions and it's his place to add anything else):

Hoshi no Kirei na Yoru wrote:
人間は誰もが弱く 臆病だから瞳を閉じる
All human beings are weak and close their eyes because of their cowardice.

「第九の現実」(本当の世界)など見たくない
They don't want to look at the Reality of the 9th (The Real World)

This, plus the imaginery of the cover, made him point to an escapism-related story like Elysion. They are closing their eyes to not see the truth, and this situation seemingly resembles in some way the incoming events.

I would also like to point that between the many myths around cats, there are an interesting one about they being wise creatures guiding humanity. Taking into account the designs and so that the story hardly seems to be focused in the characters we are seeing (they are too alike to the Harmonias, for example) I wouldn't be surprised if these were "guides".

They narrate the events, and so they sing, because they are showing the way to the clients. Perhaps between the objects of the shop and their stories? Who knows.

But a shiny cover in an horizon about rejecting the truth to avoid confronting your issues seems... appropiate.
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Thanako

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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:11 pm#4

The yellow cat is making a pose suspiciously reminiscent of the ever-popular maneki-neko. This is potentially a very fascinating tidbit, considering the history of this icon can be attributed to a store. It is one of several folktales associated with the symbol, so keep that in mind.


A poor shopkeeper meets a stray cat, despite being barely able to even keep himself fed. The cat then is given a spot to stay outside of the store, and it makes the now-famous gesture at each passer-by, attracting them more often than not to the store itself, and thus becoming a sign of good luck to shop-owners.

These cats always wear a decoration around their necks, such as a bell. This could be very relevant considering the key illustration, but we also have to consider cats and bells aren't exactly a rare combination. The maneki-neko also almost always holds a coin (often times representing an outrageous sum of money). It is also possible the girl in yellow makes this pose due to this same symbolism.

If we take this even further and dissect the colour choices using this symbol alone, the black, or the most prominent colour, is used in the maneki-neko to ward off evil spirits. The green and blues would both represent the yearning for knowledge and luck towards academia. The orange would be warmth and compassion, while the yellow would of course represent financial success.

Of course, I'm purposely limiting my knowledge of symbolism to the meanings of the colours only within the context of the maneki-neko. I could look at things through an Egyptian perspective later, though.
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Purella Lacelle


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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:57 pm#5

@Thanako wrote:
I hope you don't mind that I've taken the liberty to reformat and add additional information to your post! I am willing to revert it back, should you want. My first impressions of this art are negative, but I'm trying to have an open mind about this in the end. Let's hope that it will be an unforgettable experience!

Oh no, it's fine! It's much neater this way, and it appears I missed more than I realized. ^^;

As for the art, I...actually don't mind it. I suppose that's just a sign of my unfailing faith in Revo, as if any other artist at all came out with something like this, I would probably be reacting very negatively towards it. Though I must admit, I am seriously liking the theories about this album concerning itself with a digital world that people use to escape reality, and that the characters on the cover are mearly narrators or guides of some sort. I eagerly await to see where this goes.
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Ghostie

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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:17 am#6

Ugh, I was working on a post and it got lost and I can't recover it, but let me share my thoughts...

Looking at the background of the cover, I see falling multicolored blocks and I think it could be a representation of the video game Tetris. It fits quite well with the theme of the Butterfly Effect, and how seemingly small decisions in the early going can lead to disastrous consequences. Namely, the top is notably distorted and looks, well, broken apart. It's a very surreal image, but Yokoyan didn't just randomly design some stuff and call it a day. Also, the insert of Korobeiniki (globally associated as "the Tetris theme" even though it has its own meaning as a famous Russian folk song) in Interview with Noel in Vanishing Starlight could have been leading to this.

Alchea talked about the idea of it being a bit like Elysion. I strongly think this is the case. The quote from Halloyoru suggests people closing their eyes, shielding themselves away from the cruelty of the Ninth Reality. I think this could be represented by the sunglasses image, which also of course coincide with being Revo's symbol outside of the characters he plays. The sunglasses are also referred to as some sort of terminal interface (and that the included model in the Deluxe is just an imitation model). It's possible that the sunglasses allow these escapist fantasies to occur.

Then, another idea came to my mind. Curses have been a longstanding element of Sound Horizon. From Therese in the 7th Horizon to Lafrenze from Elysion, there have been several "witch" characters that have curses placed upon them or others. I was thinking that there could be a curse placed on this reality which explains why everyone takes the appearance of a cat. It's possible this will examine the curse, originating from ancient Egyptian times under the influence of the title goddess, Bastet. It's also possible it'll go into time traveling--perhaps in an effort to undo the curse, or maybe it'll start out in ancient Egypt and then show how one seemingly tiny decision could have shaped the course of a crazy future.

Just now, Murkki on Tumblr posted a translation of the April Fools 2007 post, the origin (I believe) of the "9th horizon marvelous super dimension troll" came from. There are some...fascinating things that are of note here. All of the ideas I had stated in this post are kind of in the post. Let's take a look.

Quote :
Come to think of it, there was a girl born eight years ago on earth, El-chan, right?
She has really grown fast; I think she celebrated her eight birthday just the other day.
Please do come to a concert soon already. I will show you a stage full of illusions that is way greater than any picture book!

This...strongly supports the idea that this is indeed going to play on the idea of illusions and possible escapism from a cruel world. I mean, just look at the cover. There are five girls represented by five different shades of vibrant colors, which seemed quite reminiscent of ABYSS and their own color representation. You know it's not going to be a happy story at all--it's Sound Horizon. The next quote made me drop my jaw a little bit because of what I had talked about earlier.

Quote :
The dance for Chou Juuryoku, done by our dancer Emerandora who joined us with the previous release ”The Curse of the Pharaoh”, is just explosive.

This is one of the only previous Egyptian references made in Sound Horizon history, I believe. The Curse of the Pharaoh just may be a song in Bastet, and it absolutely supports the idea of the twisted world in the 9th Story being the way it is because of an ancient curse. Lastly, there's a part of the post that talks about time traveling as well, so these early ideas we've been throwing around just might hold some water! This post from 2007 is old, of course, but it's exceedingly relevant now and I suggest you to read it. I don't think we'll see a chronicle rap battle, but I'd love to be wrong. This is shaping up to be an intriguing release. I think Revo's creativity will be showcased and hopefully everyone can appreciate its final form when it comes out this April!
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Alchea


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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:00 am#7

OH!!! That is truly interesting, Ghostie. So the 9th having some kind of relation to Egypt myths was a thing from the start. Now that I think about it, the most famous curses in the world are probably the ones inflicted by pharaohs to those who entered in their tombs. And that's something that certainly fits with an Antique Shop setting.......

Also, the more I think in it, the more conviced I am about the showcased characters being narrators instead of direct part of the action. There are another three sets of characters that lacks that much individuality and whose designs are made to be almost identical: Hortense and Violette, the twin dolls with the change in color palette and symbol; the Harmonia sisters, the six goddesses that once more only have small changes and a color palette change; and Mu and Phi, a duo that doesn't even change color palette.

These cats seem to fit perfectly into that: almost identical designs with slight differences and, over everything, a shift in palette. The common detail between the two previous cases such a thing happened, though, was how the members of the group were close family... What makes me think that these cats may be the same. If the Revo character is also part of the family or the "owner" of the cats (like Thanatos with Mu and Phi, Hiver with the twin dolls or Märchen with Elise)... Well, hard to say. He is clearly the leader, that much seems clear.

Also I want them to be literal cats, not humans with cat ears and tails. If that's the case and the narrators are cats, it would make sense to humanize them to tell the tale
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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:21 pm#8

I think Bastet could possibly have taken influence from the Shelly's poem, "Ozymandias,". The meaning of Ozymandias is that no matter how large or magnificent a piece of art maybe, it would fall (such as the sphinx which is alluded in the poem). Ghost savant kinda talked about it, but I think this poem could easily support or hint at what Revo could possibly be doing.
The poem is pretty short and Revo could easily make a story of an Egyptian pharoah and how time (Chronos? Lol) is forever dominant over historical landmarks...Nothing ever lasts.

The poem also talks about a stranger from an "antique" land. Here is Shelly's poem itself.

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.


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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:34 pm#9

Now that is a truly interesting connection! We do have a poem about the fall of a great civilization in Ushinawareshi Uta from Lost...and in general, the Ozymandias poem seems right up Revo's alley in terms of theme. Even in Chronicle 2nd, there's a big emphasis of "Don't be proud of what you have, you will always be victim of history repeating itself" (paraphrasing the ending of Shizunda Utahime).

Very nice finding, we'll see how well it connects in the future!
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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:47 pm#10

Okay friends, I got really interesting information for you, food for thought~

So in literature when studying a text, sometimes we get help of symbol dictionaries. One of them is Chevalier's, it's really helpful because it includes the vision of many cultures. Well, of course I had to check the cat entry, since Revo uses symbolism all the time.

As a note, my dictionary is in Spanish, so I won't quote the exact thing, I'll translate parts of it. But if you want the reference, feel free to ask me.

It starts with: "Cat symbolism is really heterogeneous, ranging from good to bad tendencies. In Japan, it's a bad omen animal, it's said that it's able of killing women and taking their shape."

Later it mentions "In kabbalah and buddhism, the cat is associated with the snake: it indicates sin, the abuse to the goods of this world."

And of course, it mentions Egypt and our known goddess: "In the ancient Egypt, the goddes Bastet was venerated -with the features of a divine cat- as the protectress of mankind. Many paintings represent it with a knife on its paw and cutting Apofi's head -the darkness dragon-, who is the sun's enemies, and who try to turn over the sacred barque during its way on the underworld. Here the cat symbolizes the feline strength and agility that a goddess gives to humanity with the purpose of helping them to win over their hidden enemies."

I hope you find this interesting! And it's easy to get an idea of why Revo chose the cat motive~

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Ghostie

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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:10 am#11

This is a really interesting and insightful take!! Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this~

The idea of having the ability of fighting against hidden enemies is another idea that could come in to play. The other mythologies and their symbols also could fit, with sin being another parallel perhaps to Elysion. As for the Japanese interpretation...well, it's something I could see being in Sound Horizon. We've had all sorts of stuff before, so nothing is really surprising!
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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:37 am#12

@Sorau wrote:
"Cat symbolism is really heterogeneous, ranging from good to bad tendencies. In Japan, it's a bad omen animal, it's said that it's able of killing women and taking their shape."

Also wasn't it a thing that a proper quality biwa/shamisen was supposed to be made partially from the stomach/womb of a virgin cat in order to produce the best sound? Or was that just our history-culture teacher trolling?

-

In any case, I would like to offer somewhat useless tidbits of info that I've seen some people around the net overlook.
I'm sorry, Sorau... I'm really not good at this discussion thing, but I know you said you wanted to read more of my thoughts

I'm sure you've seen the inverted version of our brightly-coloured key visual by now:



What I've noticed is a good deal of people have been focusing on the colours of the edges, the blue and the purple, as a connection to Roman's Hortense and Violette.

However, the man's tie? ...scarf? ...neck accessory? Fashion neckwear seems more interesting in my eyes, in a sense that it could be a connection to Rein no Sekai, especially when combined with the supposed phantom arms appearing from the cloud of red cubes, that seem to be strangling him.

Strangulation -and death caused by strangulation and/or trauma to the neck area in general- have after all been a (mostly) minor focal point of Sound Horizon for a long time.
(Ghostie can no doubt explain that aspect better, though, go see him after class.)
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Alchea


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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:34 pm#13

Just a short comment because I'm busy at the moment, but I just saw this image in Twitter that perfectly showcases the illusion that the cover creates of someone strangling the Revo character:



If this is a real thing, I have to show my respect to Yokoyan for such a subtle and interesting reference to the (potential) real events. What does it mean, aside of death being ahead of us (what is sort of a given by now), is however unknown.
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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:30 am#14

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to add these:

【西洋骨董(Kiss)屋根裏堂】News Letter
いつも【西洋骨董(kiss)屋根裏堂】をご愛顧いただき誠にありがとうございます。
当店をご利用のお客様より商品の入荷状況などを知りたいとリクエストをいただきましたので、不定期ではございますが、この度News Letterの発行を開始致しました。
さて、今回は当店に「サングラス」が新たに入荷致しました。曰く付きの品ではございますが、黒縁の素敵なデザインになります。是非ご来店いただき、お客様の目でお確かめ頂ければと思います。
入荷数は1点のみでございます。お電話での予約、取り置きは承っておりませんのでお早目にご来店いただくことをお勧めいたします。
サングラス以外にも素敵な商品、随時取り揃えております。
皆様のご来店お待ちしております。
【西洋骨董(Kiss)屋根裏堂】 店主 ???

////////

【西洋骨董(Kiss)屋根裏堂】News Letter #2
いつも【西洋骨董(Kiss)屋根裏堂】をご愛顧いただき誠にありがとうございます。
前回のNews Letterにて入荷のお知らせをさせていただきました、曰く付きの「サングラス」ですが、先程たまたまご来店されたお客様が大変お気に召され、サングラスはそのお客様のモノになりました。
今後の再入荷は不明となっておりますので、あしからず。
サングラス以外にも興味深い商品、珍しい商品、皆様のご来店をお待ちしております。
【西洋骨董(Kiss)屋根裏堂】 店主 ???

Both codified messages that the Sound Horizon LINE account has sent. If someone else could make the translation, I would be thankful. I don't trust my skills to translate all of this to english.
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Ghostie

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PostSubject: Re: 9th Horizon News and Discussion Thread Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:11 pm#15

We have a new title and release date. Nein is the new name and it is releasing a week later than previously planned, on April 22.

4/22 2015, it seems almost ridiculous how much Revo is still teasing the 8th Horizon despite this being the 9th, as 4 + 2 + 2 = 8, as well as 2 + 0 + 1 + 5 = 8. But anyway, today's news is interesting still!
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